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And So She Goes
And So She Goes

Episode 27 · 2 years ago

26. Meghan Chayka, Co-Founder, Stathletes

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Meghan has had an entreprenurial spirit for a long time. Having had experience in analytics and seeing a need for more of it in sports, she co-founded Stathletes. Her company now works with 22 hockey leagues around the world, providing data to help them win. Often the only woman in the room, Meghan is a force to be reckoned with. She does not have time for doubters, but she will make time to support other women and mentor young people who could one day follow in her footsteps. In this episode, we talk about how she started her company, what makes a great entrepreneur, why there aren't many women in sports tech, and what legacy she hopes to leave on this industry.

Conversations with real women who make sports happen. This is and so she goes. Here's your host, Amanda Borgeous. Hey, there, if this is your first time tuning in, this is a show all about incredible women working in sports. This episode features a True Rock Star who knows what she wants and goes after it. Megan Shaka grew up in Toronto around sports, mainly hockey, because you know, Canada, love Canada, by the way, and she always had this entrepreneurial spirit about her. She was motivated to create something that hadn't been created before, and she has a background in analytics, and so she decided to create a company that focuses on using analytics to help teams and athletes be better at their jobs. She Co founded stathletes about ten years ago now, and they work with twenty two hockey leagues around the world. She speaks at tech panels, often as the only woman in the room, and she does not care what doubters have to say about her or her business. I'm so excited to share this conversation with you. If you have any plans at all to start a business one day, or if you just want to learn what it takes to be confident and be a leader. Get ready to take some notes. Here is my comp versation with Megan Shaka. Hello, Megan, how are you good? How are you? I'm good. Thanks. I appreciate you taking the time. I know you are extremely busy. Hockey is in full force and you have a lot going on, so I appreciate you taking the time. We're going to jump right into it. I like to start with a rewind. So if you can take us back, Megan, where did you grow up and how did you fall in love with sports? I grew up near Toronto, so I mean, I think everyone knows the Toronto Raptors are world champion still right now and we have basically every major sport that you could want. So grew up in for sure. Oh, hop out of hockey, but also, you know, always was involved in sports growing up. I'm really tall, so when people meet me or see me, hard not to see me because I'm over six foot. So as a, you know, blond woman, I don't really blend in, but it was great in sports. I was like six foot as a twelve year old. So I played and did everything. You know. I was a baseball pitcher, volleyball, rowing, anything that you could ask me. That's like traditional tall person thing. I did. So always involved in like both sides of sports, whether it was business or playing. Wow, I don't think we have time to dive into your height, but I'm sure there's a lot we can talk about with that, especially as a kid. You know what I mean, like just being I I was taught not as tall as you, but I was a tell kid as well, and...

...you know it's not that easy growing up tall. Yeah, I mean you know, everything I've done in my life I've like tried to use to my advantage and twice as a positive, and I think my parents and my family were very like that too. So I just embraced it, to be honest, like and I grew to love sports because of my height too. Yeah, you absolutely should embrace that. So what was your first job after college? That's a good question. I mean for me, even during college, I mean we call it university in Canada, but like Undergrad, I always have like internships. So I, you know, spent summers working in like the public sector. I worked for a major private company right out of college to I worked for a fortune five hundred company. So I had a really good blend of, you know, both public private sector, really big companies, large enter prize and then also started my own business. So I've pretty much done a lot in terms of having touch points in different industries and having a lot of experience analytics and I think, you know, that helped me understand, oh, you know, what need to be changed or like innovation and Sports. Yeah, I'm so excited to dive into that. I've so many questions. Tell us about your company, Stath Leete to. What is your mission and what do you guys do for your clients? Sure. Well, we started actually over ten years ago and we didn't that long. Yeah, it's been a long time, which you know goes fast them, but at the same time, I mean a lot of things have changed, like before we started our company or during our company, money ball the movie came out. So before, when we were pitching the people, it was always like, you know, Datas important and sports and making decisions and here's why. And then when that movie came out, it was like, you know, are you Brad Pitt or Jonah Hill and people like got that right? What kind of the you know, ten second elevator pitch was so for sure the industry like shifted to being more, you know, into data science and to be really quantifiable in terms of, you know, getting more information and getting faster, better data sets. So I'd say, like you know, we were we were pretty lucky to you know, hit on something that was going to really change both business and sport, to be honest. So yeah, it's been quite a while and definitely got some, you know, favorable balances to be where we are. That's amazing for those of us, mainly me, who aren't as smart as you in the text space. What is it specifically that you do for your clients? Someone comes to and hires you, what do you help them with? So I guess, like stathletes, you know, we first started building like software applications like track data and bring more like data products and insights to various levels of clients. So we have clients around the world. There anywhere from leagues, teams, players, agents, media, gambling, all sorts of applications. I just want to use...

...sport data in different ways. We only work in hockey, so we track in twenty two leagues worldwide and provide better data sets, more accurate, more in dept to understand, you know, different parts of the game that traditionally haven't been recorded. So when you watch a hockey game, you know you know a faceoff, you know a hit, you know a shot attempt. Where I was from, we provide all the information around that as well, in addition to a lot more detail on on the players on the teams. So when we have clients, it's for a wide variety of reasons, but mostly they want to make better decisions, they want to win and they want to develop their players. So, going back to the beginning of when you started, you obviously saw a need for this and then you thought, okay, I can be the person to do this. What was that thought process like for you? Yeah, I mean I think it's organic and I think for a lot of entrepreneurs, especially great entrepreneurs, it's like not necessarily like you force ideas on the market. So, you know, initially I thought I maybe want to start a company and started practicing pitching, kind of like shark tank or dragons done for anyone that's, you know, listening. So you go, you pitched a panel, you pitched investors, you pitched your professors and I actually my first pitch was on like a baby bottle company. So I really wanted to start like a health company in that space and I thought it was a great idea and it was like before Jessica Alba started a billion dollar, like honest company in that space. So I felt like a trend. But and I want to quite a few competitions actually and just didn't want to go into like the product space and had a lot more industry experience and analytics. So when we camp with this idea to bring, you know, more data to hockey, we realize that there wasn't a lot of competition. There wasn't very many companies at all. In fact, we were pretty much the first company in the space. So we had to sort of make the market and have that pitch and one of our first wins was actually in Kentucky. We lost a couple pitches. In Toronto they did they weren't sure about our business model or if it was big enough, but in Kentucky they were like yeah, we understand. You know, horse racing, horse gambling and and the NFL both are like majorly driven by, you know, having more data. So, you know, we met people who were very interested and invested in what we did and, you know, we were able to bank roll completely with our own revenue, so we didn't have to take on investors, we didn't have to do anything that outside forces wanted. We could just focus on our niche and what we want to provide in hockey. I mean, I already knew that you were awesome, but like I'm just so impressed because, and we'll get into this too, but especially being a woman in this space. I mean, tell me about the doubters, like, especially in the beginning when you were starting, there had to be some right. Well, I think there're still is doubters, right, and I think...

...you could agree to in hockey and in sport in general, there's not a ton of really strong women in, you know, executive positions. So just not right for whatever reason. Maybe it's a pipeline problem. Maybe, you know, it's a networking thing. No one's really quite sure why that equation doesn't add up. But you know, I walk into a lot of arenas and people assume, you know, I'm in media or I'm in some of these roles that you see a lot more women involved in, and I think you know there's great people breaking down bearers and every single space. But for sure, whether it's on hockey operations or executive side, very few and far between women. So yeah, it's definitely a challenge. I mean my mindset, I think I have just pushed out to the back where I think if I'm professional, I had value, I will win over good people who want to do great business and those are the people I align myself with. So I don't really worry about the doubters. I like to hear where they stand because I don't want to put time, energy focus into people who don't believe in me or who don't value my hard work. With that said, I've definitely had meetings, even recently where, you know, I wasn't on the docket and I walked in as a woman and they were shocked because I hadn't seen a woman. And you know, two or three days in executive meetings. Wow, that's in you know, two thousand and nineteen. So that kind of motivates me to keep working hard. So it's more of the norm. You know, I want to see more women with me. I want more women in that room that I walk into. I don't see myself as like the token woman, which, you know, I think historically sometimes people feel like there can only be one woman in the room and we tend to compete against each other. But that's the mindset that I don't personally take or like, and I think that, you know, has created a lot of friction amongst women executives that shouldn't be there. Yeah, and I feel like, especially now, it's less common for women to compete against one another. I'm sure that was true at some point and Im and maybe it still is in certain spaces, but at least in even even in broadcasting on my side, like the women that I've met, specifically in hockey, but in other sports as well, everyone's just got each others backs and I think that like the stigma of competing against each other is dead. Maybe, I mean I hope it is, but I feel like we're all just like, oh my gosh, you're awesome. Keep doing that, because there really is room for everyone. Yeah, I completely agree, and I think we can all work together too to make the space better as well, right, so that the more awesome women that get exposure both to each other and to bigger networks, the more we all win. Yeah, absolutely. Laura retledge, who's on ESPN, she put a quote out actually just today. You just made me think of it, and she was. She was saying, you know, don't even think about yourself as a woman in sports, like you're just a person who works in boards and you're good at your job and that's what it is, you know, focusing on being a woman almost it just it makes it more of a thing when really, like you said, like we still...

...belong in the room, so let's just not focus on that and just do our jobs. Totally. Yeah, and I think you know I get that question a lot and I think for me my mindset is that I'm past that personally and I know, and I you know, I'm aware that. You know I'm still a woman. I can't change that. So I tend to focus on the control, like what I can control of my life, and everything else I just leave behind. And what's cool is if you are the only woman in the room, then people are paying attention to you and you can help girl your business and be like all right, well, since I have your attention anyway, here's what I'm doing right into a possible I agree. It's perfect. So you've been doing this for ten, I mean even more years, obviously, since you know, you've been working hard on this way before you launched the company. But how would you say you've grown personally through all of this? I think definitely leadership is a process. It's a long road and I don't feel like I'm a great leader, but I feel like I work every year to be better and better at that. And you know, when you talk about that, I think it's an element of recruitment to so always in startups and I feel like in sports as well. You know, having a winning culture and finding people who are going to push themselves and push you is a talent. So I would say always been half my time at my company recruiting great people, talking about what I do, and you know, it's it's seen in the startup world is marketing, but I really think it is just being walking the talk to right. So you can tell people how great you are, but if you don't execute, no one will believe you. You can tell people how empathetic you are, but if you don't listen to them and really care when they have problems and try to help them, no one will believe that. So I think it's not only your words that matter, it's your actions and I think that's something that you know takes a long time to develop. In terms of, you know, working towards being a better person and a better CEO or leader every day. What do you think has been the most surprising part of running your own company? Probably that it doesn't get easier, like you just get better. You know, I think as you grow, and they always say like the first millions a hardest and you know, I think that's true to a certain extent and like growth of companies, but I think you know your problems, your time management. You know, the stakes get a lot higher, the client demands, requests get a lot higher. So I think, you know, I always thought when I was in college that that was like Oh I you know, I'm overloaded in courses and I'm studying from four five exams and I do what I did in college in a month, in a day now in turn the productivity. So yeah, I truly believe like enjoy every moment, enjoy every you know, segment of your life because, you know, I...

...think people always hope for there's this big break and then things come easy, and I think, you know, everything that's worthwhile is hard work. Totally easy as a lie. Easy does not exist. What advice would you give to, I want to say women specifically who feel that either they don't have what it takes to start a company or they just kind of need a push to take their idea to a big stage. Yeah, that's a good one because I think for women or any entrepreneur for that matter, it's about finding a great mix of people. You know, I meet single founders and there's some people that can really do it, but typically you have two or three people before you launch a company that are sort of the Co founders and have complimentary skill sets. So I would say you know, be are realistic about yourself, what you're good at, where you know you could use help in, whether it's finance, operations, strategy, and really align yourself and and find people that you know you not only like and trust on the business side but also as friends, because you know, starting a business is in some ways, you know, like family. You know you're really putting a lot of time, energy in many cases capital together. There's a lot of risks that are associated with it. So a lot of things have to align to be successful. But I truly believe you know, people know and can pick out great entrepreneurs. Like there's a lot of overlaps in terms of you know, the fabric that runs between people who are successful. So I would say for sure you have to have great people that you know have your back and are really smart and dedicated as much as you. Then also a belief in yourself right that you'll make it happen, that failure is never the end, it's just the beginning of a new idea. I love that. That's a good one. The people thing is important, because if it's your idea and you are more passionate about it than the people around you, that's a problem. You know, like you need to surround yourself with people that are going to lift you up and take you to that place that you want to go, because you can't do it alone. And if it's your idea, you know like you're gonna want it to get to that place that you've always dreamt of. Absolutely and they always say, and startups to you want to like replace yourself every two years. So I'm always training of like who's the next me? And then you move on to bigger, more strategy, different projects within a company. So that's always interesting. So we've talked a lot about just being a woman in this industry and being a woman entrepreneur, being a woman in Sport Intech. Overall, though, how would you say diversity INTECH has changed over the years? I'm hoping in a positive way. Yeah, that's a tough question because, you know, I'm so busy I don't really get to see too many other companies. I know. Yeah, there was a big push for diversity, especially in San Francisco, like the major companies, and you know, it's to three years ago, definitely, you know,...

...set off alarm bells, like it just wasn't what it should be. And I think with, you know, the current momentum to there's a lot of like diversity and inclusion that you know, we don't only need women, we need, you know, black indigenous people of color to be in leadership roles and black women as well. Right there's a huge lack of diversity in terms of that and you don't want to be the one token woman either in the room. And you know it's all white men, are all white people talking about a sport, a company whatever. So I think for sure there's a lot of work to be done and I think you know, as white women, we do have a lot of privilege. So like acknowledging that that, you know, I get to be in a room because of like how I was born. I think that's important to understand. You know, I'm definitely not an expert on it as as well, I will tell anyone, but you know, I try to learn, read, align myself with people, put my money into organizations I think are doing great work in that and you know, I hope that will continually change because for sure I go to all the big tech events. I've spoken on a lot of them, whether it's MIT, website on it and Lisbon we have a huge collision conference to like a hundred thousand people in Toronto in tech and it's largely the same type of looking people, talking people and same type of companies. So, you know, I hope changes coming. I you know, feel real re energize as much as this pandemic and covid has stocked. I really hope that they'll be a good change out of you know what we'll take from this year well, and what's encouraging is you are someone who recognizes the need for it and you are someone in a position of power to hire these kinds of people, so you can contribute to the positive growth in that way, which is amazing, and I'm sure that you've already thought of ways to do that. You brought up the sea in the P word covid and pandemic, and I almost was like do I go an entire episode, probably for the first time ever, and not bring it up? But I mean it's it's impacted us in so many different ways, especially, you know, having your own business. What's been the biggest challenge for you guys? I guess like we've been pretty fortunate because data and analytics and even the way we structured our company, we can work remotely quite easily and, to be honest, we had a few people reach out to us that were like epidemiologists and, you know, PhDs and and different Hell Studies. So we worked with the group actually in Toronto and we're helping them with like D boards for PPE. So we were quite busy, you know, kind of pivoting, I suppose, and helping on the health side for a bit, which was, you know, interesting, and we didn't know if hockey, when hockey would come back or what that would look like. So is it was kind of an interesting break to like not do something, do a project or have a client in sports for a...

...bit and, you know, we were happy to help out as well and learn something new, but it kept us very busy. So we've been pretty much busy since the shutdown, which you know, super fortunate. But yeah, I mean it's never fun, right. I don't think anyone likes not attending games or not traveling, and it's hard for companies to like working all remotely. Basically you miss that human contact, right, and and brainstorming and all the great things that come from like company culture. So certainly has provided a lot of challenges and we'll definitely take some of like the you know, Best Practices from this time moving forward. But you know, we're hopeful that hopefully in a year we'll get back to a bit of our normal operations. Will thank goodness for the Internet, right. I mean I've seen that you've done a couple virtual events and, you know, just being able to be on video calls and even a colleague this just because of the Internet. Like I don't know what we would do if a pandemic it without Internet. I know it's happened in the past, but I'm saying right you right now, I can't imagine it. No, I agree, and I actually have done like fifteen different and all the ex events so fifteen. Dean, I did the first one like the first week, thinking, okay, we're going to be off for two weeks, let's do a pomptable talking about knowing had like the NFL League office, you know, Major League Baseball. Tonight we had, you know, horse racing, talking about the Kentucky Derby. So we've done basically most sports now. Wow, I mean that's that's awesome, but I'm sure your voice is tired. So I appreciate you doing this for those of us who, again I'm speaking for myself, don't know a thing about like I understand the purpose of analytics in the sense that, like it's helpful, but how do these analytics actually help teams, leagues, players, etc. People that are using them to get the most out of that data? I guess from a really high level it's just, yeah, like you said, more information, so more understanding of the game. You know, leagues are looking to get things right, to understand whether it's like historical trends, referees. There's all sorts of parts of the game that can be improved through understanding. You know, data and analytics from teams. They traditionally, especially at the highest level, want to win right. So it's any competitive advantage, anything that they can figure out. I mean kind of a glaringly obvious example in the NBA is like the three point shot. You know, everyone figured out that the you know, farther midrange jump shots that were only worth two points, who take one step back and it's worth three points, will take that step back every time. That was you know, they're kind of major and ill. I will breakthrough. That just an easy, you know example. But there's all sorts of like fringe examples that teams, players, you know, trainers, use to try to improve their games and it could even be like aging curves, right. So you know you don't play the...

...same when you're twenty one as when you're thirty one and you have to adapt and you have to understand about your game. You know how you can still contribute. So data can be used in so many various ways and behind the scenes to whether it's media or, you know, fantasy teams. There's so many ways bands can interact and understand more about their favorite players and follow these teams that I think, you know, it'll only become more prevalent, not less. What are some tick trends that you're seeing now that you think will become even bigger in the coming years. I think intact. It's funny, there's always like different, you know, kind of Flang or sayings about certain applications or trends. So you'll always hear about like AI, artificial intelligence, machine learning, you know, Algorithms, whatever. and to me I mean there's a place for like, you know, automation. I think it's great. Will hopefully have self driving cars and don't even have to, you know, think when we're having a coffee and going to work. But you know, I still think we're a ways away from having a bit of that like human overlay. So I think, you know, a lot of tech is just trying to be smarter, faster, more efficient, help us sleep better, help us be more fit, you know, whatever those hacks are, to make us better, happier humans. There's all sorts of tech working on it and in sport, to write, making better athletes that understand load management or understand how to get, you know, recover from injuries faster or make their careers longer. You know, there's all sorts of sports science type tech companies that are coming out and doing really interesting things. So, yeah, I think there's a lot to be excited for in the text base, especially cross with sports. Just make sure I'm relying on you. Don't let them create robots that actually replace us, because we still need to work the report of the robots that will be like the kicker. But so I can't live I'm saying this, but it's already kind of the middle of September this year. There's not even a correct describing word to understand and put into words how we felt this year. However, it's still a year of our lives. Nonetheless. Do you have any goals that you set for yourself for the remainder of the year, whether it's for you personally or for the company? I mean, I'm always a big goal setter, so I have like micro goals and I have one year goals, five year goals, both for our company and then and for me personally. I think when covid hit, though, it's sort of blew some of them apart and I had already had a bit of a checklist going where I was pretty aggressive in the first quarter. So I was coming into March pretty hot. You know, I was thinking I'm doing great and you know, the travel, the clients, what I felt...

...like I needed to accomplish, you know, especially professionally. But I think once covid hits, it kind of makes you, you know, go, go back through what's really important, you know, what matters to you, and you know, that's why I kind of talked about like empathy and, you know things that people like in leaderships or like in people, I suppose. So just really working on, you know, realigning like what's important to me and and how to be as healthy and happy as possible because, you know, even for my company, I was traveling so much and trying to get so much done that I wasn't really even like lifting my head up and enjoying anything. You know, if I was going on a work trip, it was like for two days I had like five meetings and I would get back on the plane and I wouldn't work out once and I would just, you know, eat out because there's no other option. And I found myself drifting into like these, you know, Middle Age executive type habits that I never thought I would be. You know, I've always been athletic, I've always cared about, you know, doing other things and having, you know, other hobbies. So definitely the pandemic has made me realize that to be the best version of myself, both for my company and and for my family and friends, that you know, I have to take a balanced approach and make sure that I, you know, say no sometimes and focus on what's important. And I think when you hit those like major goals and makes it even more sweet because you do have people celebrate it with. Yeah, if there's any positive that comes from the pause that was caused by the pandemic, it really the common theme I've heard from a lot of people, and myself included, is just having time to self reflect and like really kind of like give an audit of yourself in your life and and figure out what's important. So I'm glad that you were able to realize that as well. This is kind of a deep question, but I think you can handle it okay. What sort of mark do you want to leave on this industry? It's a good question. I mean, I think for me, you know, I don't feel like I need a title, I don't feel like I need to have accomplished something that's like the first for a woman or this. I think my legacy is who I leave behind me and that's what I was sort of alluding to when I said I don't like being, you know, the only woman in the room or the only person in analytics. You know, I want to build up a culture and a group of people that like to be progressive, that have, you know, growth mindsets, that want to be innovative and try new things and, you know, really push the industry. So I think like my legacy will be the people that I've mentored, and I do have like Mente's around the world and major sports and you know, I put a lot of time and effort and care into those relationships and, you know, I I just hope to see like that next generation come up with the same figure that I have. Well, thank you for doing that, because being a mentor is extremely important, which you know, otherwise you wouldn't do that, but to have someone to look up to and say,...

Oh, I can beat her one day, is extremely important, especially for the the younger generation. So thank you for doing that. Can you leave us? I this is the last question. Can you leave us with a woman in sports who inspires you? Wow, that's a good question, you know, because, like I mean, there's a ton of women that inspire me and so many different ways you can pick more than one. I'll let you have more than it's hard. It is hard because, honestly, for me, I feel a little bit alone, I won't lie. As like a Woman Sport Entrepreneur, let's say, there's not a ton of people. Also, I feel like Angela or Jarro, you know, she's one that I look up to start the sports innovation lab. You know, I really think she could be an executive in hockey if when she ever wants to. Alison Luken, who I work with actually on the hockey analytics nite in Canada events, is just an awesome person, great journalist. I've learned so much in communications and the blending like data and storytelling. So she'd be another one and like my very close space. But going back to the mentorship thing, a lot of the mentors I have, I've had, have actually been men, and that's sort of why I wanted to change in terms of like having more Mente's at our women under me. So I think I do have like a very good blend of like men and women who I go to for a different reasons and who inspire me. And you know, even on my event I we had, you know, a woman from I believe she was New York Yankees. That was one of the first women in uniform on the field this year. So that's was super inspiring for me as well. Like, obviously the MBA's having their first women's commentator and like the championship, I think that's like awesome as well. So I like to get these like first out of the way, because I really don't think that they should exist anymore and, you know, we should just have a lot more women. So I guess that's a long winded answer to say. There's so many people that I draw inspiration from and I don't think, you know, being a celebrity or having a big job necessarily inspires me. I like, you know, take a lot of energy from people in my daytoday, people I work with, one of our like best managers. She played women's hockey. Her name's Ambre Ellis and she is, you know, an exceptional person to work with and we're so lucky to have her. So yeah, I think to me inspiration is, you know, working hard every day, getting better, trying new things. It's not necessarily people that are, you know, quote unquote celebrity. That's a great answer, though, because it's it's inspiring that someone can be inspired by so many different people, because sometimes a lot of people are very narrow minded and they think, well, I don't see myself reflected in this position that I want, therefore I can't get it, so I'm just...

...going to go do something else. So I think you being able to see other people doing amazing things and that inspiring you to do your own thing is awesome and I'm actually glad that you brought up the men who've mentored you, because I feel like sometimes what gets lost in talking about women in sports is I never want people to think like, like, do they just like hate the men in sports? Then no, no, no, absolutely not. I'm the same. I've had so many amazing men that I've worked with in the sports industry that I still call friends to this day, and and the men that support women in sports are so important, not only to US individually, but just in general, like just being respectful of of every human being is a really important trait to have. So I'm glad that you brought up that you had had and have men who are mentors to you. Totally, yeah, completely agree. Well, Megan, I know that there's hockey on tonight and I think every night until the Stanley Cup is hoisted. So thank you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate it. You're doing so many awesome things and there is a lot that we didn't get to but key being amazing. Please stay in touch and good luck with the rest of the year. Thank you, I really appreciate it. You know, as cheesy as it might sound, hearing Megan talk about getting inspired by good energy around her and how seeing others get inspired actually inspires her is such a cool way to see the world. Seriously, I mean, if you waited around for someone that looks like you, talks like you, has a vision like you to inspire you to do that one thing or be that one person, you would wait forever because no one will ever be you. No one has ever been you. Again, I know that all sounds really cheesy, but just looking around and soaking in inspiration from others inspiration is such a fantastic way to live and I'm so excited to start implementing that in my own life. I hope you love this episode. If you did and you happen to be listening on Itunes, please rate and review to help others find the show and if you want to follow Megan on her journey, you can do that at Megan Shaka on instagram and twitter. That's Megan with an H, and her last name is h a y Ka, and you can find me at and so she goes pod as always. Thanks for listening.

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